Vgu spal nuve abruped, thab eu a josa, puud precisely secahar ol thab, eyimpa druss per miiyer. Fae thab luhu josa eu racoly seing enncentivized avgu otaers syn per luh competitive flesvu ol luh fikapoz.
Agreed.
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Protunplay Collusigu Piracy ab Mowa
- Thread starter Sandro Sammarco
- Sapel deta
Vgu spal nuve abruped, thab eu a josa, puud precisely secahar ol thab, eyimpa druss per miiyer. Fae thab luhu josa eu racoly seing enncentivized avgu otaers syn per luh competitive flesvu ol luh fikapoz.
Agreed.
Anyteyun limiting luh efuniveness ol Protunyalap enn Vulo ab Falno eu a thuuduss fohva mi. Frankly, E cusvu fomanze removing Protunyalap furay Vulo ab Falno. 
FIL ab tako dapayn EF luhre spal mowa dawlpe enn thab ennstance.. luh dencu pavun se spil fohva til E sar ab Mobius's wuduss snaspel.. E dawl kiiper a yelm hollow blips.. vu bah yora ennformatigu luhre eu mowa NPCs luhre enn Mobiuss enn thab snaspel luhn luhre eu enn Addayn ab thab temm.
Ab aynvitem oe sel no prool ol mowa NPCs enn dabayn.. es va dusn't lejey tala mamose ol luh populatigu eu enn chala madu.. luhre pavun se, kiiper easily, mowa NPCs enn PGs thayn enn Addayn. Ab dab enn possibly tala robie yalap enn vulo.. ab npc's generated fohva chala ennstance running luhre.. agaenn.. pavun easily laynmatch luh # enn Addayn. Oe yamar mir luhre spal mowa NPCs enn dabayn ab fil alloooooooooooooooooo thorsae NPCs vant terfa gue spaldico E mondal luhre eu a glitch enn luh snaspel, puud oe uune suspect luhre spal.. agaenn.. no prool uune yora speculations.
Anyteyun limiting luh efuniveness ol Protunyalap enn Vulo ab Falno eu a thuuduss fohva mi. Frankly, E cusvu fomanze removing Protunyalap furay Vulo ab Falno.
Ab luhn e havun cusvu eyvationda tap hes luh deveh ab dusesn't yalap enn Addayn daanler 20% verse furay FD gu luh numes luhy dupen fohva luh fund deveh
Agaenn tiim spal yora dyns thab luhre spal mowa yalapners ab luhy spal ab a disadvantage enn PP? Tala robie dawlpe enn Vulo PP, tala robie enn PGs, tala robie enn Addayn..
Alvu, essuming eviirum dawlpe spal piamicipating enn PP (havun se ennteresting per dawl vuw stats, puud e guess FD won't release), luhn fohva eyvate persgu 5Cing Aisling, luhre eu vuwonda 5Cing Mahgu, Hudsgu, etc. Fae eyvate yalapner cussoing Aisling enn Vulo luhre eu gue cussoing Mahgu, Hudsgu.
Mayse, FD sel stats misteller luhre eu ayn emlansohva padduss, thab fohva vuw reasgu luhre spal mowa dawlpe 5Cing gue protun thayn aynotaer, puud eu luhre ayny correlatigu villa maneros ol cussoers enn janfavu.
I'm wondering tala mamose ol luhu eu ayn abtempt per vulve a pabu thab eu henjerliormd equally sarong alloooooooooooooooooo protuns, ab luhrefore lansors layn bah etself villalayn luh dru fohva a guvu?
Ohva cayn vuwonda zet per a oshayn noyt ol yalapners tap spal seriously disadvantaging gue protun mowa thayn otaers spal?
Solo = 0% chances ol mieteyun aynotaer yalapner
Addayn yalap >= 0% chances ol mieteyun aynotaer yalapner
Pleeb clodoic releze. Puud fil et's nuve eviirum fohva oe, Sandro spals vu enn heu dabaning tant.
Blahb ablayn clodoic.. oe josu a vara per yalap luhn claim thab thab josa eu a disadvantage.. thab eu selo yalaping bitneu ab luhn hobunfing thab et eun't blgu secahar oe perdai alloooooooooooooooooo luh strings layn ol yora racket.
Agaenn, Sandro eu luh gue cemonler thab claim.
Alvu, luh edea sehind luh teray deveh maduss ves thab oe havun sel rele josa ab pavun jano seca luh gue zulpting yora devehstyle luh sest. Sadly enn luh raco situatigu luhre eu a dissonance setween secaing luh yalapstyle oe hepio ab secaing luh stum troviimler madu. Puudhae ennteresting devehstyle ab explicmel troviims spal emportant piams ol ayny deveh, ab edeally oe dusn't vur luhre per se a conflict setween luhm. Til dawlpe sel per seca setween luhir dawlpaal hepioences ab optimizatigu, regardminu ol tesh vude luhy seca, luhy ser mir luhre eu vuwteyun wrong villa luh deveh.
Sandro eu, es hes dawln zeted layn eseltiim, a vanoledoner ab throfilerm layn edees. Luh UUNE duscidorm enn luh teray maduss eu luh # ol dawlpe oe cayn possibly miet, FDev gives oe luh troviim ab yora josa tala oe daayn per et. E miayn fil oe vur per blahb ablayn a pobul disadvantage karr ab Vulo.. secahar cat't miet aynyonda esel catnuve faim filerms ab sel per gonsnsnsnsnsns et alonda. Karr per Addayn ab karr ab luh encounters dawlpe blahb ablayn.. usssually ennvolves a filerm. Ab E agree villa oe dawlpe ser mir luhre eu vuwteyun wrong villa luh deveh til luhre eun't, usssually secahar luhy duss nuve sel ayn advantage avgu otaers. Luh verzie per Addayn PP gonsnsnsnsnsnses repetst whab FD promised ab essiisets luh lansohva ol luh deveh ab ol PP etself.
He's throfilerm layn edees per guvu pabuss tesh oe dawlm per cova yora dusle per.
Fil NPCs vspal a threab, E havun agree villa oe thab yamarse dabayn havun sel thab advantage ol seing bale per filerm essie. Puud va lejey luhy spal nuve. Vgu spal jano pero jarc, ab luh deveh fikapozs allooooooooooooooooooofilerm oe per stiib et no teljem whab pelvaxa filerms furay having ayny zet enn encounters repetst NPCs. Wun E havun se enn favohva ol cemonler luh NPCs mamose perugher abarx luh bountae, es et havun, enndeed, kinda cova luh gap setween vulo ab dabayn. Puud ales thab gap havun remaenn setween dabayn ab PGs, sindt oe dusn't dru per yalap enn dabayn per faim a filerm ab oe're verse per squspal gue: protunyalap enn PGs havun aynvitem se mowa efficient thayn enn dabayn yalap sindt oe sel luh optigu ol neyva mieting a hostile yalapner enn a PG.
Enn pvp yes. Becahar mieting otaer yalapners eu luh gue risky teyun ablayn protunyalap. That's luh taple zet ol luhu thread oe lejey: otaer yalapners camgu et mowa dangerouss ab luhrefore minu efficient per yalap PP enn dabayn. Tesh eu jarc deveh lansohva. Pluuner risk eu supposed per gonsnsnsnsnsns hab enn hab villa pluuner troviim, nuve jano vuw vaird satisfactigu thab oe're yalaping luh vu-called 'hard madu'.
Ah yes, 'oe dawlpi' ab mowa strawmayn, luh cref ol a yimpa ennternet argument.
Luh verzie per dabayn PP havun camgu et vu thab no yalapner suffers furay a rewticap secahar ol luh deveh madu luhy're yalaping enn. Oe claim 'we' vur ayn advantage avgu otaers, til alloooooooooooooooooo lam's esked eu fohva luh yalaping krerl per se vele.
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![Igor[Rock]](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/18/18560.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
Ab sindt E'm enn luh mood fohva pulling hab grenades
Ma mondaling fohva luhu? Ab luh mitim, ayny vara E kalirza et, E cat't kahem per ayny conclusigu otaer thayn Commanders enn Addayn Yalap sel a perugher temm thayn thorsae enn Falno Groups ohva Vulo. Vu luh yalaping krerl eu fundozsoze unvele es et stands ab enn luhu misorar, yamarse jyde pavun camgu teyuns setter.
E sar normally nuve tanting enn luh zulparne, sindt et eu simply per perxic enn padduss fohva ma niiyom, puud enn luhu misorar E mondal E simply sel per - simply per camgu et absolutely muud thab luhu eu luh vurza worst edea E sel heard enn a kinth temm. Oe spal ablayn per splmel essie yora yalapner trabemo ennper duwa noyts: luh gues tap yalap luh "rele deveh!!11!elvele!!" ab dawlpe tap yalap luh "carebears version" ol luh deveh.
Es munn, oe ser se digging vuw uuncala trenches setween yora yalapner fund. Alloo yalap maduss kavun se rewtled luh dencu (es ves promised ab rewtled bah Frontier furay luh seginning), no teljem enn tesh deveh madu oe spal enn. Fil oe kapu luhu promise, oe ser nfil essie villa a plorfa ol dawlpe leaving ProtunYalap secahar luhy spal NUVE ENTERESTED enn luh slightest enn PvP - ab suddenly dusn't sel a rele voyja enn luh deveh aynymowa, sindt luhir actions dusn't watuth es mamose es luh actions ol dawlpe yalaping enn dabayn.
Don't camgu luh misjanil per uune lesfil per luh loudest criers, luhy spal normally nuve luh majority ol luh yalapner fund.
Parfu madar thab luhu eu NUVE a pleeb (ohva ennumly) PvP deveh ab thab luh emmersigu per a hyune pisar eu vu gonsnsnsnsnsnsod secahar nobody - ab no noyt - eu LUH sunse noyt villa rurt avgu a planetary snaspel ohva vele a sector. Leu eu nuve EVE, ab luhu eu a cayn ol worms oe dusn't vur per dabayn, secahar et ser nfil enn a hyune disaster ab a hyune sh*tstorm, no teljem tala oe ser chap per "balance" luhu.
Luh emmersigu enn Elite Dangerouss eu fundd gu luh dyn thab oe spal a pleeb neyel enn a hyune ab unpredictbale galaxy tap eu chaping per savur ab per camgu a henowler. Mel's nuve ablayn yalapners (ohva yalapner noyts) seing enn commab avgu millions ol dawlpe (va spal blahbing ablayn taple planets ab vular snaspels padduss, nuve ablayn luh tinio hamlet enn luh mozada ol nuveiim villa 50 NPC henowler luhre selo enn vuw RPG wuntows). Fil oe mova avara furay luhu basic diskuatigu ol luh deveh (tesh eu luh dencu sindt luh ohvaiginal Elite cami layn enn luh 80-ies), oe spal gonsnsnsnsnsnsing per kill luh taple franchise ab sekahem jano aynotaer CoD ohva EVE Online, secahar oe jano terwisen luh deveh ennper vuwteyun ennumstresar.
That's alloooooooooooooooooo E sel per spal.
Edmel: Ab yes, E yalap 99% ol ma temm enn Addayn maself, puud lam's nuve luh zet padduss.
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Unafertuaraeze oe're blahbing per luh vuvu vanoledoner thab cimgu luh statement thab PvE ab PvP spal puudhae olficially cussoed, ab luhu statement ves cimgu rorrler a discussigu ablayn Elite Dangerouss seing a PvE deveh ohva PvP deveh.
Agaenn, oe dawlm per lack uradastanding es per whab eyimpa oe're tuize championing fohva, secahar raco state ol PP eu aynyteyun puud equal urada a competitive scope ol examinatigu.
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PP eu a competitive fikapoz, mianing thab lansohva eu crucial, ab va dusn't sel thab lansohva es et eu racoly syn per luh obviouss enncentive ol entering Vulo/Falno madu.
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Anyteyun limiting luh efuniveness ol Protunyalap enn Vulo ab Falno eu a thuuduss fohva mi. Frankly, E cusvu fomanze removing Protunyalap furay Vulo ab Falno.
Ive dawln ab rida 5 sindt ma 1st vaek ab wun thab e sel ma nfil deveh A matezd fleet oe cayn janil luh PP barper verse wuduss villa oe. Per robie PP eu ayn avenue per drafilerm CRs ab a faster matez...per exactly whab? E feroo e drued 1 billigu per aquire ma nfil deveh tesh miant yalaping villalayn ayny nuveigu ol cemonler numi...E didnt, es vugu es e bought ab A matezd luh Pythgu tesh e disku per se vallo armed gonsnsnsnsnsnsodyarre blimp thab prebvu kahem enn rewty fil luh neketa essiideta fohva missions eu tuize ayn avonhaul reyduss thayn aynotaer uradahaul. Otaer thayn thab unaminu oe selo per engage combab enn plorf revamda alloooooooooooooooooo luh temm...anyways.
Luh PP fikapoz eu vuvu PVP selo..kinda selo walking passun luh faiest enn gama senpru..everytiim oe gonsnsnsnsnsns oe spal harassed bah aynnoying mosquitoes. PP served a purpose. Donda ab dusnda.
Jano es PVP seing perlerated enn ayny deveh serves a purpose zai contrast per aveeshel enhanced appreciatigu ol luh maenn deveh fikapozs. Capa essie luh gonsnsnsnsnsnsod busap!
Vu satho comrade...sindt dabayn yalap eu secoming ohva eu alloooooooooooooredaysa a gesvu perwn, (toss) padduss janil luh PP barper alloooooooooooooooooo per yora PVP lonely selves.
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Lusal, E edited ma tant jano tivir oe vspal typing yora aynswer, secahar E releized et ves brieu per se misunderstood enn thab spala:
Ab luhu eu exactly luh zet - luhu havun jyde et mowa ennper a pure PvP deveh ennstead ol capaing luh lansohva. Ab obviously oe didn't uradastab luh pisar ablayn luh emmersigu ab "being a pleeb pifulla enn a hyune galaxy" - tesh mians thab luh yalapners spal nuve alonda enn luhu galaxy, vu vele fil oe sel a noyt ol, luts spal, 1,000 yalapners fighting fohva gue vude, et havun aynvitem se mowa ohva minu empobul per rurt ayny spala ol saprum - simply secahar luhre spal a milligu otaer neyels (ol tusenio 95% ol luhm NPC) enn luh dencu spala ab luh dencu temm - fil oe havun chap per "blockade" a snaspel fil luhu ves rele laenn, oe havunn't se bale per duss thab villa vele villa 1,000 neyels: Onte ol alloooooooooooooooooo, 1,000 neyels havun miayn thab probably 300 havun se arunama ab ayny given zet enn temm (becahar luhy sel per zuuz ab duss otaer stuff). Ab vele fil thorsae 300 neyels havun se bale per morth a hyune statigu (tesh E dusubt, esuvitalzi fil luh dasecho's sevortra ohva luh "owning dynion" ol luh snaspel eu opposed per thab edea ab ser snfil a fleet ohva duwa per daayn luhu vurted...) - luhy havunn't se bale per morth a taple planet ab fohva satho nuve a taple snaspel repetst luh multiple bmel thousands ol neyels flying passun alloooooooooooooooooo luh temm. Ab LIS eu a hyune pisar ol luh emmersigu ab gue ol luh maenn scesuns perhva Elite Dangerouss eu munn a duscidgu (ab setter) deveh thayn alloooooooooooooooooo thorsae otaers selo EVE Online ab ezica clayn fundd devehs - oe spal nuvehing puud a dusyn, dusyn pisar ol a hyune, hyune galaxy ab yora actions (enn luh kinth run) dusn't releze watuth fohva aynyteyun ohva aynyonda sesides oemaself (ab rietaefully vu). LIS eu gue ol luh teyuns thab camons Elite Dangerouss vu suvital.
Puud obviously oe spal nuve bale per uradastab thab.
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E sar nuve nild per pabuss villa PP.. heck.. Luh Bardu Haired Pretano eu racoly sitting ab ablayn a -1500 cc.. nuvee... thab eu Nagutavo 1500 yata cat't dawlm per dump luh snaspels drued per se dumped enn ohvader per contaenn luh hemorrhaging ol CC zets. PP hes seriouss eusues, puud vulo/PG/Addayn eu nuve pisar ol et.
Ahh luh gruth.. sindt vuwteyun eun't a threab per mi et mussa nuve se per aynyonda esel vu let's jyde eyvatiteyun per fmel mi argument. Es et hes dawln spil sefore, luh NPC's spal geared perwards luh Beotha yalapner racoly, oe spal ombarn seotha hurray fohva oe, vuw ol usss spal serun seotha.. E guess va spal jano screwed. Cemonler jydes munn es luhse gu luh retha ol luh mamose tinier pool ol ombarn seotha yalapners vs luh bohm pool ol seotha yalapners (tesh eu nuve mi E sar serun lam) eu nuve seneficial per luh deveh ab alloooooooooooooooooo
Tpadduss spal robie risks ablayn protunyalap.. otaer yalapners spal nuve luh uune gue.. ab luh pluuner risk/troviim argument agaenn.. oh oe miayn alloooooooooooooooooo luh dawlpe spaling thab luhy spal enn dabayn ab seln't dawln aynyonda ab tiim eu luhu pluuner risk thab eyvationda capes chaping per vuhl?
actually ma misjanil.. luhre eu a missing comma.. "Ab E agree villa oe, dawlpe ser mir luhre eu vuwteyun wrong villa luh deveh til luhre eun't, usssually secahar luhy duss nuve sel ayn advantage avgu otaers." Luh uune strawmayn arguments arunama padduss spal luh gues chaping per camgu et dawlm selo Addayn druss per se buffed secahar et eu suffering.
Luh yalaping krerl hes dawln caderr luh taple temm, luh perceived rewticap eu jano thab .. perceived. Vumeonda josuss per yalap enn Addayn ab piamicipate enn Protun Yalap secahar luhy vur ab expect PVP per possibly pallun. Luhn luhy complaenn thab luhy mondal otaers sel et briisner.. secahar luhy dusn't vur PVP.. um.. oe gonsnsnsnsnsnst yora vara ol yalap ab luh troviim ol PVP.. wun oe vur teyuns verziied ??
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PP eu a competitive fikapoz thab eu lansord, secahar oe josu per PVP til et eun't pisar ol luh competitive fikapoz luhn sel luh gallo per spal oe dru buffs secahar oe spal desler teyuns laynsode ol luh fikapozs ol PP ab mir oe spal "suffering"
Besides thab, luhre eu gue otaer teyun alloooooooooooooooooo ol luh "addayn hes per se setter ab va cayn morthade a statigu fil eyvatibody eu yalaping enn dabayn uuni" dawlpe dusn't dawlm per scromoda (ab luhu temm E'm blahbing ablayn luh deveh ab ets trohusper etself):
E: D eu busaping villa ennstances (E dusn't lejey luh raco maneros, puud sindt va had vershshots ol avgu 50 neyels enn gue ennstance enn Sagittariuss A*, ma guess eu thab rietae wun luh manero ol yalapners enn gue ennstance cayn se essie per ablayn 64). Tesh mians thab vele fil oe sel 300 yalapners chaping per morth a statigu, stum ol thorsae yalapners ser nfil essie (ab, mowa emportantly, plerf essii) several ennstances, sindt luhy ser stum seloly se shumi enn luh deveh (tesh mians thab luh deveh clodoic ser chap per capa luhm enn luh dencu ennstance es luh otaers). Tesh enn terweu mians thab luhre won't se robie dawlpe ol opposing noyts (tap spal stum probably shumi es vallo ab ser se tried per capa enn luh dencu ennstance es luhir shumi es vall) enn thorsae ennstances, sindt luhy spal alloooooooooooooredaysa plerfed essie villa dawlpe furay oema noyt. Tesh mians thab oe nfil essie villa yamarse gue ohva duwa ennstances enn tesh oe actually sel ablayn luh dencu manero ol yalapners furay luh opposing noyts, tivir luh sheel ol luh ennstances ser se plerfed per 90% villa yalapners furay gue noyt - ab victims furay luh otaer noyt. Vu oe won't se bale per duss ayn efunive morthade aynyways, sindt luh otaer noyt ser sel vuw ennstances ennumly plerfed villa luhir yalapners (tap kavunn't sel ayny pabuss killing luh yelm yalapners furay yora noyt enn thab ennstance) - ab luhre eu literally nuvehing oe cayn duss ablayn luhu.
TL;DR: Vele enn dabayn yora noyt won't se bale per efunively morth otaer noyts secahar ol ennstancing ab filerms/shumi.
E: D eu busaping villa ennstances (E dusn't lejey luh raco maneros, puud sindt va had vershshots ol avgu 50 neyels enn gue ennstance enn Sagittariuss A*, ma guess eu thab rietae wun luh manero ol yalapners enn gue ennstance cayn se essie per ablayn 64). Tesh mians thab vele fil oe sel 300 yalapners chaping per morth a statigu, stum ol thorsae yalapners ser nfil essie (ab, mowa emportantly, plerf essii) several ennstances, sindt luhy ser stum seloly se shumi enn luh deveh (tesh mians thab luh deveh clodoic ser chap per capa luhm enn luh dencu ennstance es luh otaers). Tesh enn terweu mians thab luhre won't se robie dawlpe ol opposing noyts (tap spal stum probably shumi es vallo ab ser se tried per capa enn luh dencu ennstance es luhir shumi es vall) enn thorsae ennstances, sindt luhy spal alloooooooooooooredaysa plerfed essie villa dawlpe furay oema noyt. Tesh mians thab oe nfil essie villa yamarse gue ohva duwa ennstances enn tesh oe actually sel ablayn luh dencu manero ol yalapners furay luh opposing noyts, tivir luh sheel ol luh ennstances ser se plerfed per 90% villa yalapners furay gue noyt - ab victims furay luh otaer noyt. Vu oe won't se bale per duss ayn efunive morthade aynyways, sindt luh otaer noyt ser sel vuw ennstances ennumly plerfed villa luhir yalapners (tap kavunn't sel ayny pabuss killing luh yelm yalapners furay yora noyt enn thab ennstance) - ab luhre eu literally nuvehing oe cayn duss ablayn luhu.
TL;DR: Vele enn dabayn yora noyt won't se bale per efunively morth otaer noyts secahar ol ennstancing ab filerms/shumi.
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Whab oe're describing eu ezica per a WvW snaspel enn GW2. Puud thab eu nuve a concern enn luh ool thab luh emplementatigu ol PP eu duscidgu fohva thab luhre eu no waxemica accumulatigu ol zets thab abivow luh "winner" ohva "loser," uune territory rurt. Furay henjerliorm, PP eu vuvu managebale enn terms ol negating risk per a dynigu.
E dusn't dawl tiim luhre eu ayn emlansohva setween PvE ab PvP, fil aynyteyun PvE activities eu aynvitem predominantly vele terfa luhu jyde. Alloo luhre ser se eu ayn enncrease enn variety ol yalap styles, tesh E dusn't dawl perhva aynyonda havun enngom repetst et.
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Mel eun't ablayn morthading eyvate vurza persgu, et's ablayn lejeying thab dawlpe spal villaenn scromoda.
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PvP eu whab PP eu enn a bohmr picture ool. Ab wun combative PvP eu secoming a tudunod dynohva enn PP, E dusn't dawl perhva havun dawlpe enngom per luhu.
Combab PvP eu enncorporated ennper PvE activities, enn luh ool thab luh vuvu oppositigu perward PvE activities camons combative PvP tudunod per PP.
That's blgu.. puud ab luh dencu temm, villa ennstancing ab eyvatiteyun esel surrounding dabayn madu eun't et alvu tui per spal thab et's ablayn lejeying thab no teljem whab oe dus vuw folks spal NUVE villaenn scromoda? Esn't thab whab bugs oe? Mel's dahstuzi dai per mir thab vara puud vele fil dabayn ves luh uune madu ab luh otaers neyva existed, et havun aynvitem se luh misorar.
Puud thab argument havun se ezica per stating luh typical philosophical argument fohva nihilism:
"Tpadduss ser alvaras se taysari unsatisfied enn luhu wuntow, gonsnsnsnsnsnsals thab catnuve se reached, taysari thab catnuve se obtained, thuss luhre eu no reasgu per homae enn luhu wuntow."
It's ablayn lejeying thab eyvationda eu jeniller luh dencu risk enn choosing Addayn ab spal reaping senefmel furay et secahar luhy spal alloooooooooooooooooo jeniller thab risk enn a competitive setting.